Hello Dr. Müller,
My name is Seppi Höna and I am from Ireland. I am a keen deer stalker in my home country. I have frequently viewed your great website for information. I have a question for you with regards to sound moderators. I frequently read about the use of moderators, and many hunters speak of how they improve accuracy and recoil. Is this true? I would be grateful if you could
explain to me the basic principles surrounding this issue. I look forward to hearing from you.
Kind Regards, Seppi Höna, Mittwoch, 28. Januar 2009 17:21
Dear Mr. Höna,
In Shooting all well fitted Equipment, that does not move against each other = "rattles", most likely will be able to shoot well, provided, Dimensions and all other Stuff is made right. Most Spreads on the Target result from some Parts in the Rifle - Stock- Scope - Combination not being fitted well together. "Well" means here less any Play and with the necessary Force.
This holds also to Moderators of any Kind: Flash, Sound or Recoil moderators or Combinations thereof.
The Sound moderator Principle is not too difficult to explain. Look at the Muzzle flash. You see energetic Gases leave the Muzzle with say 1.000 times atmospheric Pressure, three times the Sound speed, Temperature in the orange Glow and about 70 or so % Energy left, as the Bullet only takes ~ 30% Energy from the Powder into kinetic Energy. These high pressured fast gasses expand. When they do this, they simultaneously accelerate and cool down. At about 1,14 times atmospheric Pressure already quite some Distance from the Muzzle they propagate in Air in audible Dimensions.
Read Walter Weber: Leipzig : Hirzel, 1939 Umfang: 21 S. Hochschulschrift: Berlin, Univ., Diss., 1939 Anmerkung: Aus: Akustische Zeitschrift ; 1939 In: Akustische Zeitschrift ; 1939
The Basic Idea of a Sound moderator is to trap Parts of the Gas, say 90%, and let is expand inside an Enclosure, so the Blast cannot be heard outside. Later the expanded Gasses exhaust, less Pressure lost there Energy, cannot "bang" anymore.
Well designed and made Moderators, will reduce Sound, Flash and Recoil all at once.
Accuracy is no Issue, provided the Moderators are fixed well to the Rifle, or are integrated, as in the Feuerschlucker.
The Impact point on the Target will change, as the added Mass at the Muzzle changes Barrel vibrations. So after mounting a Moderator, every Rifle must be newly sighted in.
Regards, Lutz Möller
I have a standard Blaser K95 with the front sight removed and screwed cut. At the moment I am using a PES silencer stainless steel but I fund the rifle completely unbalanced. Do you make or can you make me a silencer in carbon like the 9,3 Chang project ? If you can you just send me the silencer if I provide the thread pitch ? If you how long and how much please thank you.
Thanks, Benjamin, Montag, 7. Dezember 2009 22:25
Sweden 2009 on Moose
Skytmonn already ordered a feather light Silencers. So, when Peter Eriksson can have those, why not You. I cannot design any more this Year, so expect Spring 2010. Pleas supply both Thread dimensions and how much Space You have from the Muzzle to the Stock.
Compact Version 555g
Styer Version 621g
Predator 8 690g
Plus 1 768g
Plus 2 846g
Plus 3 924g
Re: Silencer for K95
Can you give me an estimation of weight ? Is it entirely made of carbon ? I actually have quite a few silencers already: PES, ATEC and ASE Ultra. They are all around 550 grams or more. They are all very efficient in terms of moderation. There is no point of me buying another one unless it is lighter.
Benjamin, Dienstag, 8. Dezember 2009 00:44
I understand this well and 550g Mass for a Moderator are not unusual, see above. When over a Pound Mass pulls an otherwise well balanced Rifle down, where it hurts, that is in the Front at the (now hiddden) Muzzle. That yields ugly Handling. You easily may Support the Rifle at the Pistol grip a little more, but to bar it to rise in the Back gives an insecure Feeling, that a poisons Confidence and hence Shooting results. The hot, fast and energetic Gas exhaust from the Muzzle would harm resin bonded Carbon fibers. So none of my Moderators exposes Compound to that Jet unshielded. Also note, my Moderators contain a gas dynamic Recoil brake inside, to efficiently reduce Recoil. While all Silences more or less, show that kind of Moderation too, mine are explicitly built to reduce Recoil. As a wanted Side effect, they build shorter from th Muzzle. In other Words, my Moderators do not extend the Rifle so far as others. By the Way, how protrude Your PES, ATEC and ASE Ultra further then the Muzzle in the Front. Would You have some Pictures of Your Rifles less and with Moderator screwed on, together with Measurements or a Ruler photographed with it.
I construct my "Feather weight moderators" from Aluminum and Carbon fiber. Final Weight depends on Size and Moderation, but is targeted not to exceed 300 g for Medium cartridges moderators, common with European Hunters.
thanks for the coming Pictures. Current Cost is 400 € and I believe the Carbon fiber versions will be 500 € but I have not calculates thoroughly. How are Prices in Britain for those You already bought?
The price is a little expensive. I would like the carbon fibre version please. Can you do it for 400 euro each. You really should appoint Reloading solutions as UK and Ireland distributor. If you give me discount, I will get at least one magazine to publish it in England for you. How about that ?
LM: So we save on Advertising. Yes. We shall mutually agree on that!
I would like one carbon one asap. Caliber 6.5 x
55 Sweedish. I am also tempted to change to caliber 6.5 x 65 RWS in the near
future. Do you think you or Tobias can supply a K95 standard barrel for me
without iron sights ? If so how much ?
I can see I have a further 60 metres flatter trajectory as compared to the 6.5 x 55
I.e. if weight and size is not an issue to obtain to lowest signature in terms of noise and flash and recoil can one use an over size silencer (ok within reason) ?
LM: The Limit to Sound reduction of Muzzle and Bullet noise
depends on Your Location. When You are the Shooter, You will not hear (loud)
direct Bullet noise, only reflected. The Noise You notice is the Muzzle Bang,
incuded its reflections from nearby hard Objecs (Greund, Wall, Tree).
LM: When You are (far away) somwhere sideay of the Bullet Path, You will always her both the Muzzle BAng and the Bullet Crack (from a supersonic Bullet). Here You can oversilence easily. Some 300 m awy from the Shooter somewhere sideways of the Bullet path, You will note with a less effective Silencer (say 16 dB Muzzle Bang Atttenuation) about 10 dB Compound sound attenuation, that is both Muzzle Bang and Bullet Crack combined. That means, You hear ist "half" as loud as without Silencer.
LM: Whe in the same Location the Shooter now mounts an effective Silencer, say one with 26 dB Attenuation - still of resonable Size and Weight -, the far Listener will notice 11 dB Attenuation. That is amlost the same. So If Yoy like to hide Yourself from the Public while Shooting, go somewhere else, but do not count on Your Silencer to hide You. Your Shot remins audible. The Bullet Crack of a big enough supersonic Bullet to get Deer, will sound undampened.
LM: In a closing Remark, You may have obtained the expensive, big and bulky Custom Super Dampener, promising 36 db Muzzle Bang Attenuation, that is 10 Times more, then the less effective little 16 dB Device called Feuerschlucker FS7-200, You will really like that in You closed Indoor Range with Your Rifle on a Bench, but outside, else for Size an Weight, You will notice little Difference and the far away Listerer not at all.
I.e. are there any down sizes ?
LM: Look at these big Silencers from Finland:
LM: The Down size of the expensive, big and bulky Custom
Super Dampener is the Oversize.
I now realise whatever wonderful contracture you design Lutz, it will be some kind of compromise and the balance of the rifle is upset.
So there should be rifle shot with a muzzle brake and there should be rifle shot with a perfect silencer.
LM: The pefect Silencer is one, the fits the Needs of the User. For a Stalker, ist must be handy. For a Benchrester, it can be bigger. For a Sport shooter, ist must handle sustained Fire. So I belive, there are three principal Designs for supersonic Bullets. If You go subsonic, the World is different.
This Feuerschlucker FD7-200 with 16 dB Attenuation allows me to shoot the mighty 8x68S outside less ear Protection with Ease
Feuerschlucker FD7-200 small, light, reasonable priced
Benjamin, Samstag, 7. April 2012 13:57 (Just a thought)
Lutz Möller, email@example.com